----------------------------------- Two Clowns in a Closet - Episode 05 https://circusfreaks.org/podcast Recorded on 2022-02-26 ----------------------------------- Avalon: Once more, up the stairs, around the corner, down the hall into the tiny little room that we call a closet for "Two Clowns in a Closet". And I've decided to do a record setting start and go ahead and ask the first question just right now, off the bat. "Are all of you answering these questions or just two of you? Which two of you?" Marie: It depends. *maniacal laughter from both* M: Hello, I'm Marie, and I am another clown in a closet. I am another part of the Circus Freaks. I am one of the founding members of this group who was there when we figured out, "Hey, this domain is available!" A: *laughs* M: -and I am really glad to get to be in the closet with you. A: I'm really glad to be in the closet here with you. We have been excitedly waiting, actually, to answer this question in particular, because as the format of this question indicates, the person who asked it was well aware that there are more than two clowns in our troupe who could potentially be in a closet and answering questions with us. And so we took a look at this and we set it aside and said, "oOo, we need to save this for an episode with Marie". And- M: *laughs* A: -now we have so only two of us at a time. M: It's a very small closet A: but not just two of us at all total. M: We have solved the math equation. The answer is more than two. A: Mute! So normally, the way that we do this is we go back and forth and I would pose this question to you, and then you would pose this question to me, and then you would then ask the next question to me, and then I'll ask that to you. M: Yes. A: We've clearly, however, answered this question together. M: Mwah-ha! A: So I will hand you the cards for question number two. M: Excellent. And the question is, "Why did you start clowning?" A: Okay, so we have actually covered why and how I started clowning in previous episodes to now. Super short version is sort of on accident. I saw other people gaining skills and capabilities by attending clown related workshops and went, "I would like some of that, please". And then just ran away with the circus. I could give a more detailed answer, but I think that's the quick summary. We actually received, like seven variants of the question "Why?" Which we really appreciated. And we're like, "Okay, we're going to space these out". M: And now they're totally spaced out. A: Yes, they are. M: I'm just glad you ran away to join the circus instead of running away from the circus. A: True. But you do hear more stories in the running away to the circus direction. M: It makes a better story. A: It does make a better story. And I just haven't heard too many people running away from the circus in particular. M: Unless it's on fire, no. A: Oh, yeah. I don't want to go down that road. M: It's a particular story. A: It's a very particular story. No one wants that. And it has nothing to do with our circus. So- M: No, our circus has never been on fire. A: Well, our circus has had people who perform with fire. Yeah? M: Yes, but I thought being on fire was necessarily being out of control. I think I might be wrong on that. A: It's not necessarily required that it be out of control. It is strongly implied, though, I think. M: Okay. A: So now that we've thoroughly- M: *laughs* A: -veered off the original- M: *sound effect of something flying past* A: -question, how about I ask you? M: Okay. A: All right, here we go. "Why did you start clowning?" M: There is an argument that I've always been this way because I was raised by someone who made it his goal and his happiness to make other people more relaxed and more happy with silliness and with imagination. A: That is very clown. M: Yeah, I think so. And he didn't consider himself a clown. A: Okay. M: But he would say things like, "None dare call it humor!" about himself, which of course, I have stolen. So he used to do things like illustrate Reformation Sunday by walking through the church and loudly selling indulgences. And also everything in my house that had anything that looked like a face, whether it was a flashlight or a potholder or something made with a face on purpose, had a personality. The flashlights would look at you meaningfully. A: *laughs* M: There is a potholder that sits on a shelf of retirement and care because Pink and Friendly. The name of the potholder, who was friendly and was pink and the way she expressed herself was really quite distinc-. There was a whole song, but I don't know the melody anymore. A: That's a bummer. M: Yeah. Pink and Friendly was retired by the time I was cooking. A: Okay. M: Yeah. But they had a pink potholder with beautiful pearl button eyes which instantly had to have a personality. A: That does make sense. M: And that was one of the first personalities. And the other was the frog. Frogus Maximus Rex of the octagonal table, because at that time there at dinner table was octagonal, was a pink porcelain frog bank and still is, sitting on the same shelf of excellent viewpoint looking over all of the friends and silliness. And so the frog has what they consider an enigmatic smile that kind of goes up and down and looks vaguely worried. The frog became my dad's altered ego, who was able to say things my dad could not say and had the permission to be afraid. And so the frog would be very afraid of fish. "Oh, no. Fish are scary!" Hi, frog. "Hi!" Froggy's friend Missy, the harbor seal, would reassure him that "No, Froggy. It's okay. Those are crackers. Those fish cannot hurt you. We are celebrating the victory over the fish". A: *laughs* M: And the frog would accompany us on road trips because, of course, there was an invisible dome in the dashboard through which the Froggy vision enabled the frog to take the trip with us. I grew up in this household. I would call home long after I'd moved out and get two minutes of news about the family and ten about the friends and what the reindeer boys had been up to and where the frog had been and how raucous the Nauga Palace party had been. A: Wow, that's beautiful. That's really beautiful. M: So that's where I'm from. And when I met some people whose goal it was to get adults to remember how to play, I joined them because, boy, that sounded like more fun than other things I was going to do on a Saturday. And at some point, some of us figured out that you could take classes in being a clown and that you could interact with people in ways that made them at ease and comfortable and entertain them in ways that weren't just doing tricks. And that sounded interesting. I've been learning ever since. A: Wonderful. That's fantastic. That is a beautiful answer to that question. So I guess it's time to move on to the next one. M: Okay. A: What do we got? We've got. "When people"- Wow, this is- It's a giant multiple choice question. Okay, here we go. "When people use 'clown car' or 'clown world' to describe politics they dislike or even hate is your response to One, work hard to reclaim the word clown. Educate people. Two, consider a new word. Three, expect people to know the difference between different uses of the word. Four, not care. Five, be sad. Six, be proud. Seven, something else, all or some of the above, et cetera. M: Someone has written an exam before. Luckily, we don't have to get all the answers right. We have to just get them true. A: Yes. M: So I spend a lot of my performance time quietly reclaiming the concept of clown from the people who have decided it's something scary or terrible. But I'm assuming you've talked about that before A: A little bit. We've touched on it. M: So I have run across some people who say, "Well, this whole thing is just clown shoes". And I tend to turn that with people who know I'm a clown into, "Well, someone's got to wear the big shoes". And it matters less whether they know I'm a clown to be able to say something like, "You know, if this were being run by clowns. I expect we'd all be having a little bit more fun" A: Yeah. M: If I don't know people, I'm usually not going to respond too much because a lot of times I think they're using the word clown to make sure that what they're saying isn't going to offend. And a lot of them aren't thinking about the fact that they know clowns. A: Well, one, a lot of them don't know clowns. M: Or they don't know they know clowns A: Or they don't know that they know clowns. But yeah. No. I mean, if you're concerned that your go-to phrase to indicate that you are unhappy with someone's behavior would otherwise be a slur against any minority group, M: Oh, this is better than a lot of things. A: This is a heck of a lot better. And yes, if that's something you absolutely feel like you would otherwise do, use "clown". Please use "clown". We can take it. That is better. M: Clown is strong. Clown can take it. A: Yeah. M: Yeah. A: Clown can take it. But yeah, So you try to just make light of it. Make it- M: Usually. I think that goes along with the job. A: Yeah, definitely. M: "So when people use clown car or clown world to describe politics they dislike or even hate, is your response to work hard to reclaim the word clown? Educate people. Consider a new word. Expect people to know the difference between different uses of the word. Not care, be sad, be proud, something else, all or some of the above, et cetera?" A: I'd say this is some of the above. If- I think, I have yet to actually run into a situation in which I have heard this used that was not on social media. I've never heard this used in person, M: True A: So I don't know how I would respond in person, but when I see this on Mastodon or other parts of the Fedi, it really sort of depends because I will look at the tone of that person's post and sometimes the post before and after it, because there are points in time where this is used because somebody is just so furious, they're so angry. And there's a point where you get too angry to hear constructive feedback on how your languaging. M: Yeah. A: There's a point where me chiming in about your word choice is so potentially pulling it off topic and dismissing the larger argument that I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to just show up in that conversation and shut it down. However, when it's sort of at that just grumbling grousing sort of space. When it is "I'm saying words and they have some emotion behind them, but I'm not currently wanting to throw things" and that's the read that I get off the situation and people are having further conversations about it or a situation is deescalating when I encounter it because sometimes that's happening, I will encourage a different word choice. I will chime in and say "Speaking as a clown". And it depends on how I handle that because I will really pull things in specifically because I think that discussion benefits from using descriptive terms M: hmn A: -of what it is someone is upset about. Because when people just say "clown car", "clown world", or "clown shoes", those uses are normally so overarching that it can just be definitely just sort of "Hey, we'd be having more fun if this was actually a clown world or a car full of clowns". But when somebody refers to someone as a clown, when someone refers to like a specific politician M: *Affirmative Noise* A: -as a clown, I like to point out that the conversation is going to get farther if you say this person is "completely disconnected from their base of who they're supposed to be representing", or this person is "actively malicious", or this person is whatever thing it is they've done- M: Adjectives are good. A: -or behavior they're showing that is making you that upset. The conversation is benefited by you actually isolating that and describing it. Because while I am going to circle back and double down on if otherwise you would be using an ableist slur or a slur against anybody, any minority group, 100%, I would prefer to see you use the word clown. But- because the number of people who are going to hear that and think that you are equating these two things and that sad is smaller. Like you're not going I know that you don't actually mean that I'm the same as that politician, and I had a choice. I chose to be a clown. So yes, this is a better choice. But in the same way that you have done nothing to actually express your concerns or actively express why you're upset, if you choose to use a slur. Like, you have done the same thing here, you've just chosen a word that's less likely to offend people. And so you're not getting your point across. You're getting something close to your point across, but you're not actually expressing yourself. So I do strongly encourage people to try to hone in more on what they're actually upset about and less on just the blow up and the blow off. But at the same time, I know sometimes you just need to vent, and I'm not about to, like, jump into somebody's situation when they just need to vent. Like, that's fine. M: Yeah. A: But I do think one of the options on that, I think, was "Expect people to know the difference". And there's a certain level where you do expect people to know the difference. But I also know that the more that we as a society anywhere, whether this is as an internet society, as a country, if you're from a particular place, any grouping. The more that we choose to equate those two things, the more I'm running into having to defend it, M: *Affirmative Noise* A: The more those two things are associated in someone's head. And clown is such a beautiful thing and can be such a beautiful and meaningful thing that it does upset me. It does make me sad when people make those two things equal in how they're expressing. And I see- I have seen performers who do the "choose another word" option. I don't, intentionally, but I've seen people like Avner. Avner Eisenberg. Super famous, super popular clown performer. And there's no question what he's doing is clown. What he teaches is clown. He teaches with noses. Like, that is what he does. But the label that he puts on his performance is "eccentric performance". And he calls himself "Avner the Eccentric" because "Avner the Clown". M: It rings different. Yeah. A: It rings differently and creates different images for people. And he chose- like, I totally respect the choice. This is not me throwing shade anywhere. He chose not to connect those two things in people's brains. I like the fact that I get to do a little bit of repair work. But I totally get it when performers are like, "You know, people actually want to come see your show if they don't think they're coming to see a clown show". And I think that's sad. M: That is. A: It's sad that that's the state of things. But it is true. M: You have to find euphemisms for clown. A: I mean, I've heard people point out that clown is a four letter word in America. For everybody who's currently counting on their fingers, M: Just drop the vowel, It'll be okay. A: Clown is spelled with five letters. This is just a comparison. M: Yeah. So when you're talking about other words, the other related word I do here applied to politicians is "buffoon". And that has its own connotation because bouffon is such a closely related art, but it has a different goal. A: Oh, yeah. No, that actually, So, I think I would almost be totally willing to get behind the statement of "Go ahead and call them buffoons" M: Especially if what they're doing is ridiculous. And that's why you're calling them that. A: Because you're 100% right. Because bouffon is about, is often specifically about calling out politics. It can also be about calling out some other things, but it's often very specifically about political commentary because you take the awful nasty thing, whatever it is, whatever thing you, as the performer are trying to point out is gross and disgusting. And you heighten that to the biggest degree you possibly can M: -and hold it in front of the people so that they see it. A: And that is what bouffon is for, so like, Yeah. I kind of feel like that's fine. I am not a bouffon performer. So it's- M: Nor I. I tried it. It's hard. *laughs* A: So it's possible that somebody who actually performs bouffon would feel differently in that what their job is is to point out that this should not be happening and is. Whereas whoever we're pointing out that we're upset with is the reason why the bouffon would need to create those same behaviors. But it's much more closely tied together. M: Oh yeah, A: Because the clown is supposed to be the much more innocent variant of that. M: Right. A: It's about positivity. It's about love. It's about human emotion. It can be anything. We've talked about how it can be any range, like the full range of human emotion, but it does tend much more towards- there is sort of a split between the gross. M: The worst we're going to get, honestly, is a fart joke. A: Yeah. And the very deep into the nitty-gritty of how bad human beings can be. And I'm using the word bad in a wide scope that includes things that some people would feel are not necessarily bad. So I don't want to actually, like- M: But it covers a whole range of things. A: But it does cover a whole range. And I think it's a decent term to use here. The really negative sides of humanity are a huge part of what bouffon explores and yeah. So they're at least a lot more tied together. Like you're using the word clown. It also- It implies something that I think nobody realizes they're implying. The clown never knows better. M: Oh no. And so it's ascribing innocence to the people. It's ascribing not knowing better. A: Yeah. M: Oh no. A: A clown never knows better. If they are hurting somebody- like it's part of a sketch or something. Like if somebody's being emotionally upset who's an on stage partner, I want to be really clear about that, not an audience member. If an audience member is upset by a clown, M: We've done something wrong A: -the clown has done the wrong-, has done something wrong. But if a clown makes a mistake, they are unaware of why it's wrong. They are unaware that it's wrong until they are informed of it, which is sometimes the entire arc of a bit or a scene or a show. Heck, an entire arc of a show could be "Clown made a mistake and has to be informed why that's a mistake" M: *laughs* A: -like that could be a total clown arc, but clowns don't know better. So if you're saying M: *Affirmative Noise* A: -that the politician you hate is a clown, you are strongly implying that they don't know any better. And if that's what you mean to imply, I suppose that's okay. M: *laughs* A: I don't think I've ever seen a situation where somebody was ranting about a politician or a group of political decisions where they actually felt like the politician didn't and couldn't know better at the time. M: It's the and couldn't that puts the pin in that because I have seen some people who were ascribing stupidity, A: Specifically using the word M: Yeah A: -stupid. Yes. So that is true. However, most politicians, you can strongly argue that their job is to know better. M: *laughs* A: They're supposed to know something. M: That's why they ran on the idea that they know better than whoever A: Not get into any actual details of politics. I think I can point out very clearly you're strongly implying that there's no way they could have known better. And I don't think that's what you're going for. I've never seen a situation where someone used it where that's what they were going for. M: So I like your premise of just try saying what you mean. A: I find it's useful. M: Very cool. Have we hit the next question? A: I believe you have the question. M: It's time for the next Oh! "What is your favorite question to ask other people?" A: Ooo! This one's a fun one. Okay, so this one is slightly situation dependent. So it splits into two questions. It is either "What'cha doing?" or "What do you really like to do?" I want to be really clear that is not me asking about somebody's job. Like if that happens to be how they also make money, great. But that's not the thing I'm asking about. I'm asking about what people really enjoy doing, what people enjoy spending their time doing, and asking about what somebody is actively working on. I think one of my favorite things ever was for a while I was a member at a local maker space, and it was culturally very common that you would walk into a room as somebody would be working on a project and you had to try to figure out cues as to whether somebody was willing to have you approach them or not. But if they were, because obviously if somebody is busy and working on something and is trying to think, leave that person alone. But I would sometimes get the opportunity to become a rubber duck. M: *rubber duck noise* A: Yes. Make all the squeaky noises. No. The phrase I think comes from the software development community, which is about if you are sitting with a problem in the development of something and you are stuck and you are having a very hard time figuring out what is wrong or why it's wrong or how you could move forward. One of the strongly encouraged tactics is to take a look at whatever you have nearby that has a face. M: *laughter* A: For whatever reason the assumed go-to is that somewhere you have a small rubber duck or can acquire one and you look at that duck and you explain the problem to them and you explain the problem to them, as if they only know the very basics of whatever your industry is. Like if they sort of understand how coding works in an overarching way. But like, they don't know the details of how Python or Ruby or I'm not about to just go and list off all of the programming languages I know -of, that I know of. M: *laughs* A: I can't program worth anything. Or you assume that they don't necessarily know how the language works, but they understand the concepts that would allow you to do like what's referred to as pseudocode, where it's like, "oh, you know the bits and pieces. You just don't understand the details of how it's written in this language". And so you review what it is, what the problem is and what your goal was and how you were trying to achieve it with them out loud. Because it's very common that you'll stumble across how what's supposed to be happening differs from what is happening. You'll likely stumble across it in your explanation. M: In the middle you say "Oh!" A: Yeah. That's what you're going for. You're going for this moment where you say, "oh", in the middle of the conversation and then because you're having it with an inanimate object M: You don't have to stay in you can just do it A: -you can drop that. Yeah. You can drop that conversation and just go fix something. However, one thing that an actual inanimate object cannot do is ask you questions from that place where they don't really know how something works. And they would like a little bit more explanation. Because maybe this very simple thing is actually where the problem is. Because sometimes you have a typo, and you just can't see it because you're blind to it at that point because you've read it so many times. And this applies to practically anything you're trying to do. The difference between your expected outcome and your current outcome of whatever. If you're building something, if you're coding something, if you're trying to write a song if you're trying dance steps, anything. The difference between what you were going for and what you have is really really really often somewhere where things got a little jumbled at the basics. So it can be really helpful to have somebody ask some of these some of the really basic questions. So I get to do that sometimes? If I ask somebody what they're doing and they're not in a point where they're, like, "Thinking. Come back later" and they're in a place where they're like, "Oh, okay. So I'm making this and this is the point of it. And this is what I'm working on. And this is the thing that has me stumped now". One, I get the info dump. I love info dumps. Just hearing everything because they're so excited. And I love hearing people be excited. So I get the info dump of this project that they're super excited about. And then two, sometimes I get to be a rubber duck. Sometimes I get to actually ask a question, but then they're like, "I need you to hold that thought" M: *laughs* A: "-because I need to fix something". And then I'm actually this used to be kind of hard for me, but I've gotten really good at being like, "Okay, I'll wander off and come back later" because I see- M: 'cause then you know you're actually helping. A: -you need to do something. If it is not a "I'm currently working on something" And I'd say, "What is it that you really like doing?" You still get the same info dump, M: Bwah ha-ha A: If you've actually convinced somebody that you really want to know. Because sometimes people are very hesitant about it and they don't- M: "You don't want know what I like. I'm boring." A: Yeah, I get a lot of that. And that's sad. But it is a lot of fun to actually get an info about thing people are excited about. I mean, I will retain, like, maybe 5% of it. M: But the 5% you retain can start a conversation the next time. A: Yes. And then I'm like, "okay, you were doing a thing with, like a whatsits and you were going to try to improve this thingamorabob" and they're like, "Yes! And then they dive right in because they can" M: *laughs* A: I don't talk to a lot of neurodiverse people. You talk to a lot of neurodiverse people. No, I do and it's amazing and I love it. And it's fun to encourage that kind of thinking in anybody, though, too, just to show enthusiasm for something people like, which I've mentioned before. M: Oh, yeah. Helping people like things is even better than letting people like things. A: Oh, yeah, it's fun. It's tons of fun. So I adore doing that. M: Yay! I like that very much. A: Shall I ask you the question? M: Sure A: All right. "What is your favorite question to ask other people?" M: So I'm going to answer this for my usual clown people that I am. A: Okay. M: Because that's when I most interact with people I don't know. A: Yeah, that makes sense. M: I spend a lot of time at events where I'm kind of ambient. If I'm doing that, my first question is almost always going to be some variant of, "Hey, have you found the fun yet?" And if it's "yes", then I get to be happy and dance about it. And if it's "looking for it", then maybe we get to go on a quest together. And that's fun. A: Ooh quest. Quests are great. M: And if it's "no", then I have a job. And it might be to try to add a little fun to whatever is going on right now. It might be to say, "You know, I think that over here there was some really weird stuff happening. You want to come check it out?" It could be any variety of that. So my other most fun question ever to ask people is an invitation. A: Okay. M: "Would you like to" I spent a long time swing dancing, and every once in a while when someone seems particularly open and willing and already standing up and already looking at me, I will get to ask them, "Would you like to dance with me?" And very often this is when I'm three foot up on my stilts and having someone dance with the weird stilt clown? That's great fun. That makes my life more fun. A: I have noticed that people seem to be much more willing to dance with a stilt dancer with a stilt performer than they are to dance with a at normal human height clown. M: I think it might break the expectations that people would have with normal human height. People about, "Uh-oh, but if I dance with you, it might mean something". And that's scary, I think, because they can't dance with me in the same way. A: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think also you have the relative closeness and the range at which you might end up being with somebody M: True A: Because somebody at human height is, "are we dancing with? Like, is that are we now going to be touching? Are we now going to be very near each other? How much is this breaking into my comfort zone?" M: Yeah. A: Whereas you're not getting close to a person who's on three foot peg stilts. It's not happening. M: And I don't do that when I am at normal people height. It's not in my repertoire. Now, I'll end up dancing near people and connecting with them visually, A: Oh yeah, and if there's a dance floor, yeah M: -and sometimes they will come along. But no, it's different. A: Yeah M: You are right. A: I love watching people dance with, whether it's Tall Foley, your clown, or Tree, who's a very common stilt character of yours, who's sort of a- M: Sort of tree spirit-ish, it's not very like a tree, A: Sort of like a Dryad. M: I'm not really a tree. My name's Tree, A: -but also you are a tree. M: I have leaves. I have bark. I don't look like that tree over there, but it's my friend. A: But it is great fun to see how people choose to dance because they are stuck dancing by themselves. M: *affirmative noise* A: Because you dance by yourself. I dance by myself. But we're dancing together- M: But we're visually connected. A: Yes. It's a lot of fun to watch. M: Yay. A lot of times when I see Jane on stilts dancing, it will be any line dance is like a magnet. A: 100%. M: *laughs* A: 100% Jane loves line dances, which is probably because I love line dances. I mean, Cupid Shuffle, I am on the floor. M: *laughs* A: It doesn't matter what the situation is. I could have been deep in a conversation about something incredibly meaningful, and like, I would have to be incredibly worried about somebody else's mental health and stability in that exact moment. Like, That's the only thing that would keep me from that dance floor. M: From joining the Cupid Shuffle A: Would be a duty of care situation like that is- if I am not literally responsible for somebody else's well being in that moment, I am on the dance floor M: And they can come join me and have well being together. A: Oh, 100%. But there's moments where you don't have that, and I don't want to pretend that that's not the case. But like any other option, Cupid Shuffle plays- I am on the floor. The same can be said for a lot of the standard line dances that you'll see at parties. And it's so much fun to do because no one expects the stilt walker to do that. Which we haven't actually talked a lot about stilt walking at this point on the podcast. So I'm taking this detour. We're going on this ride because you are really our number one still walking performer. M: I do a lot of it. But if you're talking about line dances, I remember going to a late night wedding party. Loca Hora, A: the Hora Loca! M: Hora Loca yeah. A: Oh, my gosh. M: People were from two different cultures and they were teaching each other their dances. A: Yes. Oh, this was a night. One, this was a cultural moment we got to be a part of. And I am totally blanking in this moment as to which cultural heritage the bride, I think it was the bride had, M: I think, Loca Hora is Venezuelan but I don't know what the other culture was either, A: but, so, I'm not 100% sure. And I'm not going to pretend that I am. But the idea is I think it's at eleven. So it's the eleven to twelve hour. But it might be the twelve to one, but there is an hour. Thus the name Hora Loca, where somebody distributes weird hats and everyone gets up and dances, and it's the end of the party. Like, the party can continue after that point, but it's arguably the end of the party because that is used as the cover to get the bride and groom out of there without family members and everybody else trying to hold them up. So this is- it's how they escape from their own wedding reception. M: *Laughs* A: And we got in there, and so they hired us to distribute the hats and to be part of the dance party. And we were both on stilts. And you were on three foot peg stilts and I was on two foot peg stilts, and I think it's worth talking a little bit about what peg stilts are. So a slight veering... M: Sure. A: There are multiple different forms of stilts. One of the forms of stilts that most people have probably seen stilt walkers on some event in are M: Drywall A: Drywall stilts or painters stilts, they are constructed- they're called that because they are actually constructed for people in those professions. They are incredibly good at holding you standing stationary. That's what they're for. So you can walk around in them. You can stand still forever in them. And they are a form of portable M: Scaffolding? A: Scaffolding. M: Yeah. A: That's what they're for. They are used for a lot of performers to have somebody in an awesome costume out an event, waving to people, standing still, walking to the next location, standing still, waving to people. Great Photo Opps. And it's a solid way to do. We use peg stilts, also known as dancing stilts, because they are- there's a couple of ways that can be made- But they're essentially a small wooden stick under your feet that just goes down to a rubber stopper M: Or aluminum. A: Or aluminum. Yeah, yours are aluminum, but, you know, it is exactly it's pegs it is that you've got- M: You are on a pole A: -some foot, some pole. It goes down as a rubber stopper at the bottom. So you are on very small feet. You have no toes. You have no articulation. M: It's really great for spinning as long as you don't do it too many times in a row. But A: Yeah, they're called dancing stilts in some places because you cannot stand still. You can stand still for like really brief periods of time and you're still not actually still. You can hold yourself,- M: But you are in motion A: -balanced. But that's by like doing shifts back and forth with your weight, you're just not actually lifting your foot. Like, that's the closest you can get. And that's what we use. There are others in the troupe that also use jumping stilts, which are big recurve springs M: With an entirely different personality of their own, because at that point, you're never at a static height either. A: Yeah. Both: Because you're always bouncing. A: I don't know a ton about it because I didn't fit into them when I tried when I tried using them. So I've not really used them. Have you? M: No. The calf length is too long for me, too. A: Okay. M: It hits my knee in a bad way, A: And that can be altered. For the record, you can fix that problem on any given set. We just left the set in question Both: available for the person who uses it. A: Yeah. Because it's a big adjustment to make, not a small one. We're there on pegs stilts and you are on three foot pegs and I am on two foot pegs. And we always have if we have a stilt walker out, they have a ground person. M: Thank goodness for roustabouts who keep us safe. A: Yeah. Mostly that is just making sure that nobody walks into you while they're on their phone and they're not paying attention while they're walking. That's the number one. M: Number two is hearing what the three year old said for the person who's 9ft up. A: Yup. There's that. And then there are these weird scenarios. We got really lucky with this situation because M: *snorts* A: my roustabout for the night was Russ and we were already starting to train acrobatics together. We hadn't gotten very far, but we were training acrobatics together. By that point. Somebody set off a mylar confetti cannon M: Slippery! A: And so this dance floor was covered in small pieces of mylar. That is not a safe situation for a stilt walker. And it was not going to be navigable by you at 3ft. M: No, I went out to the carpet at that point. A: Yeah. We took one look at the situation because this was after we passed out the hats. We took one look at the situation and unanimously decided you were taking the outside loop. And I was going in because I checked in with, you know, with Russ and said, "Have you got me?" and we know he can lift me above his head at this point. So it's like, "Yeah, he's got me". So he's much closer- because normally that grounds person is a bit away, like they're there and they're close enough in that they can affect the pattern of people traveling. But mostly they're just behind the stilt walker and a few paces back, which is enough to give them some control over the situation. But he was directly behind me so that if I slipped, I could intentionally lean back, M: And be caught A: -he could catch me, which is never the intent. Like, that is not how rousting for a stilt walker works. M: That's not how that works. A: You don't catch a stilt walker. A stilt walker controls their fall down to the ground. M: There is a correct way. In which- A: We train it. M: -You don't get hurt if you do it right. A: If anybody gets weirdly inspired by this and decides that they want to go learn how to use stilts, go for it. Wear knee pads. M: Please. A: I'm going to put that out there the safety tip of please, please, please, please, please, wear at least knee pads. You probably want wrist guards when you start, but minimally wear knee pads and find somebody who knows how to fall properly to teach you how to fall. It's really the only absolute basics that you really, truly need instruction for. But you do. M: Yeah. A: Backing up. M: *laughs* A: So he comes in and is ready for me to be able to lean back if I need to fall, which is the opposite of what I'm supposed to do M: *laughs* Recalibrate A: and catch with him. Standing back up. And yes, then we had this cultural exchange going on, which I witnessed because I'm full 2ft above everybody else. I saw where these two groups had merged because this is two families that are now becoming one family, at least theoretically. And so on the dance floor, we had one group of people trying to teach this dance to this other group of people. And for the immediate circle, everyone's watching one person who's showing them how to do this dance. But then I'm a couple of rings of people out and I can see that like third and fourth and fifth rings would love to learn this dance, but cannot see the person who is teaching it. So I took it upon myself as "The Tall Person" to mimic as closely as I possibly could the instructor, not just doing the dance, but doing it in an instructing way so that everyone learned it in multiple stages back. And it was fantastic. M: I love this use of dancing on stilts A: Fantastic and was such a great- like I had been practicing being the person in the Cupid Shuffle, going with my hands over my head, showing to the right, M: *Affirmative Noise* A: to the right, to the right, to the right, to the left, and then, like making a kicking hand-motion. M: This is all wired in. A: That's how I do the Cupid Shuffle, particularly if I do it on stilts. But so it was great to take that, like how I do that and then apply it to the situation was just so good. So good. M: Yes. A: What was the question we were answering? M: "What question do you enjoy asking people?" A: Yes. Okay. M: And from there we diverged. A: Welcome to "Two Clowns in a Closet. Stilt Walker edition." M: Bwah-ha-ha Divergence happens. A: Okay. So I asked you- M: and then I asked you A: -this question. No, M: No? A: You asked me this question. Then I asked you this question, M: Okay A: Which means M: I think we ask for the next one A: if we answered it then I ask you the next one M: I believe so. A: Okay. Which is why these are still in my hand. That makes sense. M: Question Math. A: Here we go. "What's the most classical clown gag, e.g. Squirt flower, nose honk, etc. That is still considered a crowd pleaser today?" M: So I love the word classic because it doesn't become a classic unless it sticks around and it doesn't stick around unless someone likes it. This is like a jazz standard. We do not do these, as we call them, classical scenes the same way Aristotle did, because we have different culture, but everyone puts their spin on. So I enjoy some of the old ones. I think which one is a crowd pleaser really depends upon your crowd and on what you in particular are into, because what you're not into is a lot harder to sell. A: Oh, yeah. Don't do something on stage you don't like doing. You might be stuck doing it for the rest of your life. Don't do that to yourself M: Ooooh yikes, yeah A: Like, if it's the thing that's the hit and people keep trying to hire you for that for the rest of- If you don't like something, don't do it on stage. M: This is a good guidance, yeah. A: Do something you like. M: Yeah. So one of the ones I like is called the Whip Cracker. And I've been on both sides of this, but typically I've performed it on the very low status side. So there is a whip cracker who is introduced as "The fabulous, the greatest whip cracker in the world, who is going to demonstrate for you his prowess." And there was a particular person I am visualizing with whom I performed this a number of times. A: I love this performance. I have seen it a number of times. We have- currently, I think last time I checked the website, we do have a video of this performance between you and that performer on the website. M: You can see him get frustrated in all his glory. A: It's great. But do explain the rest of the bit. M: So I could be the whip crackers assistant. And of course, that means I get to help! And of course, if a clown helps you, it's going to be harder. A: *laughs* M: So I spend some time being where I'm not supposed to be. And then my job, once I identify where I'm supposed to be and what I'm supposed to be doing is to hold up a newspaper so that it may be split by the whip cracker, whose whip is a bit of cord on a piece of dowel that is far too short to actually reach me A: Yeah, because it's like 2ft of cord and he's standing like 10ft away. M: There's no way. But "He is the greatest whip cracker since Trisket and therefore he will succeed" So I get distracted by the newspaper because "There's the funnies!" And so when he's ready for me, I'm really not ready. It's not up and he has to coax me into place. This happens a few times. And finally I am convinced to hold it up and see cracks, the paper tears in half. Miraculously. And I know he succeeded. "Tada, isn't he great?" At which point now the newspaper is smaller and the whip cracker will split the smaller paper. And I'm a little bit more nervous about this, but I'm willing. "Oh, no, here's the Obituaries and whose I knew them." And "Oh no, I supposed to be holding this up. I don't want to be in that obituary page next." I'm scared. That has about the same level of Foley can't get things in the right place at the right time until that gets torn in half. And the third one is even smaller, very small. And I am now officially afraid that I am going to get hurt doing this. And so I beat the whip cracker to the punch and tear it in half and say, "Ta-da!!" of course, the whip cracker knows that I have spoiled the trick, after which the consequence is that now I must hold a rose in my teeth. And of course, that's not my hands, that's my face. And I'm scared. And I have to be coaxed into holding the flower up instead of letting it droop in my fear. And somewhere right as the whip cracker is cracking the whip, I manage to lose my pants. One must wear very large pants. A: Pants drop! Everyone loves the pants drop. M: So there are gags embedded inside gags. Pants drop could fall in the category you've listed like squirt flower. A: Yeah, yeah totally. M: It is a beat. A: It's a beat. M: Followed, of course, by the reaction to the beat, which is realizing that your outrageous underwear is showing to the audience and the whip cracker is not happy. And I better run. A: We "Why I oughtta"-d that without "Why I oughtta"-ing it. M: Right! A: Because you don't have the whip cracker- in the version of it I've seen you do- you don't have the whip cracker "Why I oughta" you off of stage. M: No, I'm not "Why I oughtta"-d. I run because now I've been exposed and of course, now the whip cracker has to clean it up all by himself without his assistant, who is ever so helpful. A: I am amazed at the level to which this is one of those things of the clown experiences the full range of human emotion. And because it's so intense and because it's so over the top, it's hilarious. Because when you just say that your character is scared during all of this, I mean, I think we're hearing it in your tone of voice. M: *laughs* A: We're getting some level of the heightened level of it. But, like, if it just was a person scared and it just really read like somebody is being awful- M: Oh, no, that would be different A: -And expecting to scare- this person to be this scared and still do the thing that would be bad, that would be awful. M: No, You have to go so over the top that it's not possibly real. A: And it's so funny once it's that far over the top, which the pair of you definitely succeeded with, no question. I love that. I love that performance and when it comes to the classics- When it comes to the classic tricks and gags, I think Foley has done more of them than any of the other clowns in our troupe. I could be wrong. I have not seen every performance this troupe has ever done because I was not in the original founding members category. M: You're probably still right, though, A: But Foley has done so many of the classics and is so good at them. It's so good. Like, it just makes me really happy every time I see one. M: You don't have to make everything new. Just make it yours. A: Yes. So I suppose. M: Can I ask you this one? A: Yes, you can ask me this one. M: "So what is the most classical clown gag, e.g. square flower, honk nose, et cetera, that is still considered a crowd pleaser today?" A: Okay, well, I think you covered the fact that, you know, this is one person's opinion. This is two people people's opinions, and you find out what the crowd likes. That's not going to be consistent, but I'm going to take- I know, I know I keep taking us on tangents today, but I am going to take us on a small tangent because this is something that I feel very strongly about. The nose honk. M: Yikes. A: I understand logically by whomever it was, because I don't know who did this, I logically understand why whomever came up with the idea of embedding a squeaker in a nose, if that even happened, because I bet it was actually somebody put a squeaker in their pocket or a horn in their pocket and honked it when their nose got squeezed. That strikes me as much more likely. M: Having the choice is interesting A: but I don't know who popularized this. I don't know why this became a thing. I get that it's funny, like, legitimately whomever came up with that idea in the first place? Probably genius. Unfortunately, it has been plagued the rest of all clowns ever since because people are convinced for some reason that clown noses honk. *laughs* My clown nose is made out of paper mache. M: No, honky. A: It does not honk. Most clown noses I know of are made out of either a molded latex or a molded resin of some kind. I know that there are clowns who use leather noses. I know there are like, there's tons of ways to construct a nose. I don't think I have ever seen a professionally working clown that I've encountered whose nose embeddedly honked. M: No, nor I. A: I don't think I have ever seen this. I don't think I've ever seen a nose that can honk. It's quite possib- M: Except for the Halloween store. A: See, I haven't even seen the one at the Halloween store. I believe you that one exists in a Halloween store because it's just too prevalent of an idea. But I have never seen somebody who's actively working who has done that to themselves. But despite the fact that nobody seems to do that anymore, at least. This does lead to an infinite parade of not just children, children, teens, adults M: Reaching for your face! A: Reaching for your face, or asking or demanding to touch your nose. I run into this a lot. It's not a little bit. It's a lot. I wear a string nose. It's visible that there are strings on my face connecting my nose around the back of my head. It is clearly an item of clothing, I think is kind of M: Yeah. A: -the way that it feels. Like, it is also a mask and has a lot of stuff embedded with that. But I don't think most people are aware that that's impacting them, if it even is. So I think it reads sort of like how there are people who are just always wearing that hat? Or are always wearing that hoodie? M: It's part of their profile A: It's an article of clothing. M: Yeah. A: It's part of who they are. But it's an article of clothing. That's sort of how my nose reads because it is not mysteriously attached to my face. Which is something that does happen when you use a glue on nose M: Or one like mine that attaches inside my nose. A: Oh, I forget that yours uses the like- M: It's like a fake septum ring. A: Yeah, I forgot that you have one of those. They are so cool. M: I like them A: But it doesn't seem to- I have not seen there be a drastic difference between the likelihood of someone reaching for your nose M: I do both. A: -no matter which version- M: There isn't. They do it less when I'm 3ft up. A: Yeah. And I will forgive infants for this indefinitely. M: Oh yeah. A: Forever. I will forgive infants for this. They are literally just trying to grab things off of faces. They'll do that with glasses, too. That's not about it being a clown nose. But typically I end up having to fend this off. And the number one way I do it is by retorting with the question of, "Well, can I touch your nose?" Which I think is beneficial for all parties. M: Oh yeah. A: Because while I do get this from normally I don't get it from adults who aren't intoxicated, but I do get it from intoxicated adults. I do get it from teenagers, though, normally when I get it from teenagers, it is in some sort of- it's attached to the same feelings of I'm going to try to get this clown to scare my friend who's scared of clowns, or I'm going to def- bulk up who I am by defending my friends from a clown. I don't- M: Wow. A: It's in a weird teen aggression thing whenever that happens. It's not super common, but it does happen. Most often it happens with kids who are in that age range where they haven't really learned the empathetic sense of "Other people have personal boundaries, too". They may be behaving there are parts of it that they learn how to do. You don't get too close to other people purely because these are the rules, but they haven't quite started to process those empathetic possibilities. That's just a stage in growth thing like that is a thing that you pick up as time goes on. Some people pick it up earlier, some people pick it up much later, M: *laughs* A: but it happens at some point. And so it really helps when there is a moment like that which is a I have either requested or demanded a -I say I as the child, I've either requested or demanded that I be allowed to invade somebody's personal space to an intense degree. Touching someone's face is a intense boundary crossing. Whether that is a boundary violating decision where you have not actually gotten consent or it is a boundary crossing with permission, it's still crossing those people boundaries. So when I respond with, "Well, can I touch your nose?" People have an immediate reaction to that, whether they are open to it or they are immediately repulsed by the idea of somebody touching their face or anywhere between that. They at least have an immediate reaction and often will process through to the realization that that is what they just asked or demanded of another person. It's very easy to de-person the clown because they are so much larger than life. And that is actually weirdly part of the goal, because if they weren't so big, we would have had the same problem. Like if you're too real Scared Foley isn't funny, because Scared Foley is a person who's scared. So it's part of what you're trying to accomplish as a clown. But you also still need to find a way to maintain something like personal boundaries. We don't have much by way of personal boundaries. As clowns, you don't get the opportunity to, but that is where you go coming to a totally different level. So normally this goes down. "Let me touch your nose." "Well, can I touch your nose?" "Nooo!" Done with conversation. We have passed this point. Everybody recognizes that these are boundaries we don't actually want to cross. And now we move on to something else. And it is my job to lead people to something else at that point. M: Yes A: because I can't just let it sit there. M: Can't leave it there. A: But now we move on. Fine. But what is kind of amazing and I will say is a cool side effect of this is I have had a couple of opportunities where a small child, when I asked, "Well, can I touch your nose?" And I want to be very clear, I ask this question so that people can process through to their own realization of that. It is never with any movement towards the child because I want them to realize that they've asked to cross a boundary. I don't want them to feel like they are about to have their boundaries crossed. There's a big difference. M: Oh yeah. A: So there is no reaching from me. There is no moving towards them. They're just me posing the question. And I have had some small children who stop and they think about it for a minute and they come to the conclusion- And it's difficult to tell exactly what conclusion they come to, but some variant of- That they are willing to have the clown touch their nose for them to be able to touch the clown's nose. I don't know how much of that at any given point, it's impossible to tell what's going on in somebody else's brain, So I have no idea how much of that analysis ends up being "That's going to make me uncomfortable. But I really, really, really want to know what the nose touch feels like" or how much of it is. "Oh, yeah. That doesn't seem like a big deal to me. And I would like to do this. So let's go for it". I can't tell which of those things it is, but it is that the child consents to have their nose touched so that they can touch my nose. So they stand there for a moment thinking about it, and then they say either "yes" or "okay", at which point, by this point, if they've been thinking like that, it's very likely that I have managed to make myself at a similar height to the child by this point. M: *Affirmative Noise* A: And so then there will be a very, very gentle, like I will say, "okay" There will be a very slow, very gentle movement where I will move one hand towards their face. I'm being calm. I'm being soft in my movements and I'm giving them a ton of time to back out of this decision if they decide that a barrier has been crossed. Because you don't always know M: *Affirmative Noise* A: Where your boundaries are when you're that young. And I'm not trying to cross a kid's boundaries. M: Yeah A: That is never my goal. So I slowly, carefully touch the tip of their nose, boop them on this snoot lightly, and then retreat my hand. Typically this results in a giggle, because by this point we are all playing very nice. M: Yes. A: And then I say very still as they because they are mimicking how I did this M: *Affirmative Noise* A: -move very slowly, very carefully, insofar as they're capable of, because sometimes fine motor skills are not super well developed at this point. Reach out and touch my nose with a very small tap, which I've noticed is often just a little bit longer than the amount of time I am touching their nose. M: *laugh* A: Because they're processing. M: They're processing. A: They had things they wanted to know about this situation. And most of it, I think is a texture thing. It's either a texture thing or it is a I want to prove that this is real because clowns are people behave like they are creatures of myth and they don't actually exist in real life. M: *laughter* A: So when people meet them, they're very confused. M: "You're not real". A: They're very confused. And it's like we do exist, as it turns out. And yes, this is my nose and it is real. Those are beautiful moments. I will give that those are beautiful moments. But I will also say so much invasion of space because they think they can honk it and they think it will make a honk sound. And so to whomever the brilliant clown was M: *laughs* A: Why? Why did you have to do this to us? But to backtrack to the actual question, M: *laughs* A: to backtrack to the actual question. I think my favorite classic clown gag is probably Dead and Alive, or sections of Dead and Alive. Dead and Alive is a very long, very involved sketch. It has been done by tons of clowns with slight variants back and forth for ever. I don't think we have any video evidence- I'm not even sure that any of our clowns have done the full dead and alive. M: Not the whole thing A: But it's a very long, very complicated, very detailed, very trust based M: Oh yeah A: -sketch that includes a fair amount of slapstick and stage falls and all sorts of nonsense. But where it begins. And this is one of the reasons why I love it so much is- and I can almost promise that anybody who actually engages with media on a regular basis, because I will grant you, some people just don't watch movies and don't watch television. And to you I say good job. M: *laughs* A: But if you do, you have seen some variant of people exploring the weird, awkward moment of greeting each other with two greetings that are not the same. The standard for the dead and alive gag is one person- So two people walk up to each other. One person extends a hand for a handshake. The other person lifts their hat to tip their hat to the other person. There is then an awkward of moment. An awkward of momentness. M: *Laughs* A: There is a moment of awkwardness in which each person realizes they have made a mistake and the appropriate greeting is the greeting the other person just offered. But they both have that realization at the same time. And so now the opposite people are lifting their hat and offering their hand, and this goes back and forth and it escalates and is the springboard to much other silliness. But also can- but I have seen it just be its own individual piece of silliness where that is just how we deal with a greeting is escalating that to the point where we try to figure out, okay, maybe we go with a completely different form of greeting because now it's just time to just do knucks. Or we get to the point where, because it's sped up so fast, we both accidentally use the same form of greeting at the same time. And now we have solved the problem. We move on. But it's one of my favorites because we've talked about running into clowns from different backgrounds before. We haven't really talked about running into clowns who you have not worked with before, but who come from similar backgrounds. And I think that on the relatively rare occasion where clowns from multiple different groups find themselves on, say, an event site and now have a moment where they're both walking down the street in opposite directions, M: *laughing* A: but they are being viewed by passers by, and they realize they must now interact. M: This is an opportunity. A: This is an opportunity. And I think any clown who has a background in knowing some of the classic American gag bits, from the moment they realize that this is an unavoidable situation and they are now here, they're just hoping- they're hoping the other person knows this one. It's definitely one of the ones you're hoping for. And so you're hoping the other person knows this one. You pick one way you're going to greet this person. And you start the- the term in physical performance is "projecting it", which is there are lead-up movements to almost any movement you're ever going to do. Most of these things are things that people don't think about consciously most of the time, but that you can exaggerate when you are in a performance mode. So, things like, before extending a hand for a handshake, you might rub that hand on your pants to make sure that it's clean. M: *laughs* A: You may rub it on your shirt. You may even just start doing that thing where you fully flex out your hand. Your hand is now out and open and in front of you, in front your body in some way, but not actually extended out yet. M: It is very visible that the hand is in the direction that might extend A: but it's very visible that the hand is in the direction that might extend. So you start working that direction and you're really hoping as you're watching that you're going to see the other guy start fiddling with his hat, like you're watching this and you're hopefully both thinking, "Here we go". You're never going- like, If it's somebody from your own troupe that you've practiced a ton with, you might take that moment actually go into like a full dead and alive. But full dead and alive includes things like knowing certain countings and timings for things are. So that has to be very precision and well rehearsed in advance. But nobody being able to figure out how to greet each other the proper way. You don't have to practice that in advance, you just have to watch the other person carefully. So you go for it. And if you do it to a heightened enough degree, that can be all you do there. Like you greet each other, you spend that much time trying to figure out how to greet each other. Come to some sort of conclusion. If you come to some sort of satisfying conclusion, everybody who has now watched this go down is going to be satisfied. And you can probably just figure out how to say goodbye, which could be a repeat M: *laughs* A: -of the same situation. If you really go for it, figure out how to say goodbye. And now continue walking the directions you were both walking. And now you don't have to figure out some other clever thing to do. M: Yes A: You can now move on from it. And that can be really useful. Just the fact that there are all of these time honored traditional ways to interact. Because the reality is the moment where you and a friend run into each other and you offer knucks and they go for a high five- Like that happens. And it's funny. It's funny when it occurs naturally, which is one of the reasons why it's so funny when it happens in this exaggerated way M: It is universal. A: It's just universal. Even if you know that you would never tip your hat to someone because you don't wear a hat or you've associated that with whatever that you don't want to be, you still understand because at some point you've witnessed a friend and another friend make a turkey out of a hand and a fist bump shenanigan because it's gone back and forth too weirdly. Like that's, Everyone understands that to some degree, so it is always funny. M: Eternally. Yes. Nice. A: Alright, M: I like that. Ooh, Have a deep question. A: Okay. M: "What forces other than plate tectonics do you think have had the biggest impact on forming the present state of Earth's lithosphere?" A: Okay, I know who asked this question. They've in fact since double checked that we are in fact answering those questions and they know that they're responsible for me having to look up what the lithosphere is in order to answer this question. M: Was there a lithograph of the lithosphere. A: No. M: Okay. A: But I like how your brain works. M: Oh, good. A: Otherwise, this would be much more complicated. But- "I like the cut of your brain jib". There's a thing that's said around here. Not infrequently. M: Public service announcement: We do not cut each other's brain jibs. A: Continuing, you know who you are. And thank you for educating me on what the lithosphere is. And in answer to your question, gnomes. M: Gnomes. A: Yes, because I have a reasoning here. So gnomes have an interconnected web of tunnels that spans the entire globe, and where, if this was true of, say, Badgers, this would probably decay or like increase the amount of travel, amount of change. But I don't think that's the case because I think this has functioned as a stability, as stabilizing factor. Stabilitating. I'm great on new words today, M: Coinage! A: But a stabilizing factor because these are magically reinforced tunnels. So where you still do see some shift and some changing, I'm pretty sure that's responsible- that that can be attributed to the fact that there are regions where there are either fewer tunnels or that the tunnels are just not as well traveled. And so they don't get reinforced magically. But where you have this massive interconnected tunnel system that's reinforced with magic, and it's not going to extend further down than the lithosphere because below the lithosphere, you have lots of very hot goo, and nobody wants to touch that M: Gnomes and magma don't mix. You're right. A: No, that's a bad time. It's actually really stuck being only part of the lithosphere, and I think that it's an incredibly detailed, incredibly, it's a huge force on the lithosphere because otherwise it would have just kept moving a lot more than, like, the plates would have, I know this is, plate tectonics, but the plates would have moved a lot more if it weren't for this. And if we were suddenly to lose the gnomes. M: Oh, no, A: That would be a really bad time, because now you have no reinforcement. In that case, you would have no reinforcement of these tunnel systems and the eventual collapse of them. M: Protect the gnomes. A: Please protect the gnomes. Be kind to any gnomes you encounter. They are wonderful. M: So shout out to all the Pacific Northwest gnomes protecting the cascade subduction zone. A: And thank you for gnomes worldwide. M: Yes, A: We appreciate all the work that you do. M: Thank you, gnomes. A: And now I will ask you, "What forces other than plate tectonics do you think have had the biggest impact on forming the present state of the Earth's lithosphere?" M: Man this question rocks. A: I don't know how we got this far in here without significantly more puns. You are the pun Queen. M: Why are you calling me the punk Ween? A: No, M: I don't sing any of their music. A: You are pun royalty is what I was saying. M: It's Royal pun when I do this. I know. A: Moving on, to your answer. M: Okay, so gravity. Gravity affects the shape of the lithosphere because it is pulling all that water and all that atmosphere down onto the hot magma and keeping it in place. And if we did not have the gravity, the lithosphere would not be anything like its current formation. A: No, M: It's much more chaotic and probably not there. A: Yeah, I was going to say it was a solid argument that it wouldn't be there M: And I feel like it might be not just gravity originally but also still gravity that affects the other forces that have shaped the lithosphere, including collisions. A: Those would definitely make an impact. M: No, there we are. I am not alone in my puns. A: I can do it too. M: Some of them just crater, though. A: Ouch. M: So there we are. A: I think that's all our questions. That is all of our questions today. There we are. M: We have ended this with terrible, terrible puns. Hehehe A: Which I think is appropriate for our wonderful episode in which you are here with me in this closet. M: I am so glad to get to be here with you in this closet. A: It has been lovely. M: I agree. A: So thank you all for joining us. This has been great fun. If you have any questions for any of us, please go ahead and you can reach us on the circusfreaks.org website. There is a contact form, M: *sings* Send us an email, drop us a line info@circusfreaks.org A: and there's our musical segment. You can also tag me on any Fedi conversation where you have a question and you're just like, "hey, clowns" M: We like questions A: "questions for the podcast!" Definitely make sure that if you do that though that or an email make sure that you somewhere mentioned this is a question directly for the podcast. Otherwise we're likely to just answer it directly. But there we are. Thank you all for joining us. I need a cup of tea. M: Tea! Tea sounds lovely A: So we will see you all next time on M: Two Clowns in a Closet. A: Ah ha! I opened it on the first try. No scrabbling for the - scrabbling? Scrambling? M: I don't think a Scrabble board would fit in here. A: No. Probably not.