R: It is weird. Liam: What's weird? R: Normally I have to go to another room to set up the audio and then I run and I close the door and like- the whole rhythm is distorted L: I know! The rhythm is totally off. I mean, normally you introduce us R: Right I can't L: with what the travel has been. R: Right and I can't do that because otherwise I would have to say we went down a flight of stairs got into a car, drove across the country, ended up in a hundred year old building on the other side of the United States where we're building a clown school in this exciting unexpected, completely off the cuff episode of L: Two Clowns in a Closet R: You know that works pretty good L: I don't know why didn't lead with that with that in the first place. R: Well we should have just gone there from the start. Well, we are here and I guess I- perhaps I am burying the lead nowhere but in front of everyone but, ah, we did it. I made a wish at the end of (both laugh) R: last episode of last season "I think I'm ready to teach" and I am sitting in a building that is under construction to be a clown school and I am afraid to wish for things now. L: You're gonna get your wish. R: It would appear that that wish is, as we say, in progress. Some assembly required L: "Some assembly required" is an under statement R: of the year. So, I feel like we- we ought to explain what's going on- I mean- we always do a yearly recap, and I feel like we need- we're in this weird hard reset. L: We have a- we have- we have the question of "What's happened since the last episode?" R: Not much. Not much. L: Not much, just just completely uprooting our entire lives R: So, where to begin? Where to begin? L: Well, it was- So it was April by the time the last episode aired. R: Which for the record was some- L: Some time R: -yeah L: after you made that wish. I don't know how long, I forgot to look it up before we started recording. R: Do want to go leave real quick and go get it? No! We never- L: No we're here it's fine. R: You see, because that's again, the con- creative constraints of the entire concept feel fragile now because it used to be we were crammed in a closet and we're in a room that is bigger than our old apartment I should point out, to help people, help them center L: Yes. R: We're currently sitting at the foot of the stage. We are surrounded by a king size mattress and most of our circus gear still in boxes. L: I was about to say, I can't see the stage from where I currently am sitting. R: No, no, it's all- it's all boxes. So we're- we're in what will eventually become a medium sized black box theater, but in it's current state it is rough, rough, rough, and we're- we're doing the work. L: We are. We're doing the work to- to build it back up, but I think we're getting ahead of our story. R: We are. We should go back to the beginning -the beginning -the begin- Oh, now we're sad and we're in Texas. L: That was where we were yes. Sad in Texas dreaming of better things. R: Right. We had an opportunity to take a road trip. We had already- we'd been discussing getting out of Texas for some time and we have the opportunity take a road trip- L: I think it's worth pointing out to everybody when we say "take a road trip" we mean "pack ourselves into a car. Talk to nobody. See nobody.- R: Hermetically sealed L: Interact with as few people as humanly possible and in all cases wearing masks R: and cooking our own food in hotel rooms L: cooking our own food in hotel rooms. Do as safely as we possibly could. Trip to another location" Yes? R: Yeah. Um. It's getting a little chopped up. I feel like- I feel like we're- we're- there's no way to tell this story in a way that makes sense. L: I know what happened. R: What happened? L: We didn't banter. We tried to dive right in. R: You're right, we tried to hard. I'm going to kill this and we'll start again. L: Why? R: Because I feel like now we've stumbled all over it and it's a mess L: Which is different from our normal podcast how? R: We have a high- a high standard L: Of banter R: but there's no banter we just L: and silliness. R: -dove we dove in. L: We're bantering now. R: I- yeah. I wish- I wish we had started here. Can we start again? L: Okay R: We'll start L: We can start again R: do you want L: for you R: Ok L: But now there's actual outtakes. If we start again. R: If I hit kill and go again, but if I- if I just keep going there's no outtake. L: Correct. R: Aww that's a toughie. 'Cause you know, you know on an ideological level I like the idea of live theater and one take work and- and yet here I am I- I want- I want to do the safe thing and start again and look pretty and I'm not gonna. L: No R: No. Even if I said I was I know what would happen. I wouldn't do it because I'm lazy also which is another be part. High standards and lazy which lead to this L: Your not lazy. That's- that's fundamentally untrue. R: You're right. L: and it's unfair to you R: and unfair lazy people. They really know what they're doing. L: I'm not sure if laziness even exists but that's- R: You've got a good point L: that's another entire- R: What do you think- What do you think takes the place of laziness? L: I think people are overwhelmed. I think people are overworked. I think that there's a lot of people not getting basic needs addressed and that's being labeled "laziness" R: Woah. Should I point out that it got heavy in here? L: I didn't- I was gonna say "but that is a topic for another time" R: And another podcast because we're supposed to be the lighthearted fun people. We've been under a little bit of stress. L: We're not just lighthearted fun people, however we are kind and this is a- a safe place to be. R: When have we been the heavy- I mean I used to be very heavy, but when did we used to be the heavy topic people? L: We do heavy topics when they get brought up. R: Do they? Do we? L: If somebody asks as a heavy topic question we will answer a heavy topic question. R: Okay, fair point, fair point. So friends, we're a little scrambled up. L: Yes R: That's- that's what I'm gonna tell you, but as we explained, we had an opportunity to come to this city L: Are we're gonna share what city that is? R: I was about- *intelligible sputtering* Why are you making it harder? L: I'm not making it harder. I'm asking you questions. R: I thought they were supposed to ask- I don't mean to like point at you and act like you're not in the room but, you're not. Um, yet. When you're listening you will be and I- see the whole thing breaks down- the whole- I don't feel right. Okay. They're supposed to ask the questions, you lovely friends of ours L: Yes R: I just gestured emotionally and emphatically to *censored* box that I'm like real- and now I've mentioned up pra- I'm beeping the brand name L: I think you should R: of the box L: yes R: I'm gonna be the- the beep box L: Yes. I- R: *lays down a beat* Well, that's goin' on the public record. L: Yup R: Okay. We had an opportunity to come to Pittsburgh. L: Yes R: I said it. L: Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. R: Oh, like Transylvania. Pennsylvania L: Pennsylvania R: That's it, we're saying it like that from now on. So here we are in Pennsylvania. Oh it gets better and better the more L: It does, yes. R: the more you do it. So he ended up in Pennsylvania. We were here for one week. We thought- We- we'd never been. L: No, we'd never been here. R: Of all the places we've been, we'd never been to Pennsylvania. We- we had an opportunity to come here, we took a very safe trip. We figured we would- we would as the kids say "Check out the vibe" L: Is that what the kids say? R: I have no idea, I'm not one of the kids but I would imagine they would because it gets me out of the sentence L: Ah ok. R: There you go. L: Okay. R: So we're here and we liked "the vibe" L: We liked the vibe Both: a lot. R: this place is- this place is pretty cool. So we decided to start looking around and we saw neighborhoods and we got to know a- little bit just did a little a driving- a lot of driving around. L: A lot of just driving around and sort of standing in streets and going- R: Hmn L: "I don't know, what do you think about how this place feels?" R: Because we're not going in anywhere at this point the story because, well- L: Reasons R: Reasons. All of them- all of them being the ongoing pandemic. I'm gonna say it because I don't like to pretend we're not saying it. L: That's a good answer R: Right, so here we are, and we like the general sense of the place. We do have a few friends here, which is wonderful. Hello local friends, and we decide "Well, let's look at some buildings, see if there's anything here, some properties" L: Yes. R: and we knew we wanted- because we had been building up to move out of Texas for a lot of obvious, reasons all of them Texas L: Yes R: for quite some time and so we- we knew we wanted a place where at the very minimum we would be able to continue our circus training and we had some hopes that we might be able to do something it's very early days in this conversation. I'm trying to go back to it so much has happened. L: I know right? R: So we're there and we go and we look at an old church. L: Oh my gosh. R: and this is where- this is where our adventure starts and I'm going to tell you now that we do not end up in the old church and it's a good thing because we saw it and it was beautiful, it was gorgeous and underneath it was rotten. The building surrounding this beautiful church was literally a water feature. You went down- L: Yeah, you sent me down to the basement, I came back up and I said "There's a water feature" R: Yeah, it was a flood. L: Which was a flood, yes. R: So this entire building's going to collapse. We were very demoralized. We didn't know what to do and Marie found one other listing that had a magic word in it L: That magic word was "stage" R: and so we found ourselves driving out to this place that's a little outside the city. L: *Affirmative Noise* R: Further than we had kind of expected, but you know, here we go, and we get there and it's this old- it looks like a hotel. L: Yep R: and it's an old hotel and there's a phone number outside and I start making phone calls because I say "I want to see it" and they say "Well we don't know who's, you know, is showing it" and I say "I don't care, find somebody" and they find somebody and I get a phone number and basically they gave me a phone number, I write it down, I call that person, and I annoy them and finally a Realtor calls me back and says "What is your deal?" because we did this for about half an hour. L: We had given up. We were starting to drive back, 'cause we drove out here to take a look at it despite the fact that we hadn't gotten in touch with a Realtor. R: Right and I got the- we- I got the call and we pulled into a parking lot. L: Yeah, we were- 'cause it was raining R: Everything was wrong L: and- and- yeah. R: So we come- we explain to this person "We want to see this building", and they're like "How long are you in town?", I'm like, "No, no, no, no, no. We want to see this building now." "Well, where are you?" "We can be in front of it in ten minutes" cause we hadn't gotten that far, see also the rain, and we're told forty five minutes someone's gonna meet this out here. L: If it was okay that they were wearing jeans. R: I said "As long as you've got keys to the building" L: We don't care! R: They show up in their jeans, and they let us in the building. L: You giggled. R: It- there's a couple of things you gotta understand. One, this building, from the outside it- you could feel it's alive and I asked it permission to come in and it let me in and I touched the brick and I felt like lightning shot through me and I felt like "Okay, I'm allowed in here." and then we started walking around, and the place is full of stuff. L: So much stuff. R: It's- it's- it's literally a place that was- and we're going to talk more about this later- but it was- it was more or less a- abandoned. The people who- had to stop working on it, stop dealing with it, they retired out and the building was left to sit for a few years. So it was rough but there's a stage and there's a big kitchen and there's this room and that room and we go upstairs and a walking down a hallway that has twelve bedrooms in it, and I start giggling L: *Affirmative Noise* R: because I hadn't thought of anything this big and this was- the only way to describe it is that it was big enough that it was as big as I could imagine us being able to handle. Anything bigger would have been too much, anything smaller we would have been going "Oh, I don't know. Can- is it gonna be enough" L: Yeah, anything smaller I think would have been- R: An obnox- L: We can- we can live here R: Yeah L: and we can maybe do work ourselves but it would be difficult to invite people R: So we see the place. We like the place. We summarize. We think "This is pretty cool" but we also know, for all of the let's do something- let's do something nonsensical, we should do the due diligence and we proceed to go looking anywhere in the United States that has the overlap of a building we want to look at, laws they will protect my dear friend Liam and that's- that's about it. L: A building with- within- within a certain price range R: OH, and, and a- L: and then the- and then the- the kicker, and this was the interesting one for me, because I did a lot of the virtual legwork of hunting down buildings because I am good at doing that kind of task. R: You're kind of a ferret. L: I am an internet ferret and I enjoy it. Um... and What we wanted to do and what we're going to do R: What we're in the process of doing L: Is outside of the expected sphere by most residential codes R: Oh no, it's a business. You can't. L: I don't mean R: I hate the fact that we're a business but we are a business entity L: Yes, and by that I mean building codes and- and- and the city codes is what I'm talking about. City codes where they decide what you can do in what building by R: You're talking about zoning. L: Zoning! That's- that's the word I'm looking for R: You lost the word zoning. You spent six months on the word zoning and you lost it. L: It- you know what R: Where did it go? It fell out. L: It stopped having meaning. R: It just L: It was the tag- because, well, 'cause frankly where zoning is listed is in most city codes. So, zoning was just a tag in all of these documents I was reading which were, over and over again, city codes. R: And I'd like to point out that we had more fun with the no's than we did it the yes before the travel L: *laughs* R: and I'm getting ahead of myself, we- we were looking at laws like this place had laws about vaudeville. You had to get a vaudeville license L: Which was separate from a theater license and separate from- R: A dance hall license? L: A dance hall license? R: Yeah it was, we didn't even- we couldn't get a clear sense what the things meant. We knew that there are some places you weren't allowed to have a snake on the street, which didn't really apply to us but we were very interested in the history of that *laughs* L: I- it is very interesting reading through city codes because there's two- there's basically two forms of city code. You have cities that were established early enough that there wh- there weren't really great ways to get a template for what your city code might be and so all of the rules really only exist on a "We had a problem and we had to write a rule" basis and then you have a second set which are cities that came together and formed a little later and you go "Oh, this was a- this was a template. They got their city come from somewhere else and only edited it when something came up" R: I think- I think the really amusing thing here is, of course, we knew nothing about any of this. None of us had ever thought about this mission beyond the pie in the sky, it'd be neat and so suddenly we are elbow deep in learning about L: Oh yeah R: all of this. So we come up with a list. I think this is the- the thing we need to explain is we had a list of places all over the US and we- the little short version of the trip we had taken proved that it was possible to stay relatively isolated for safety L: and still- R: look at- L: move through the space R: and look through- look at properties L: move through the country and look at properties R: and so we did that and we looked at so many places that I feel like with there's no way we can go point-to-point here but the we could hit some of the highlights. I know at one point you and I did acrobatic tricks in a masonic temple. L: We did R: That was falling off the side of the cliff L: and I got to climb a clock tower. Same- same building. R: We found a beautiful old theater that was rotten and was water damaged and was molding over and it was tragic. L: That was so sad. R: Ah I'm trying to think. We found a warehouse building that just didn't work. That was three or four stories but it was just to big. It was an example of too big. L: Yes it was too big. R: and had we not seen this place, we would have been- we would have been trying to figure out how to fit our thing L: how to make that and we would have become just- frankly the only way to make that one work would have been to like, become l********. R: Uh, we made an agreement we were going to use dirty words during this podcast. L: *laughs* R: If I'm not allowed to say go f*** yourself, you're not allowed to say a dirty word like that L: Fair R: Thank you. L: So R: We're gonna wear out the beep button. L: We are gonna wear out the beep button. R: by the end of this episode L: but, we, yeah we looked through all of these different places. Oh, we were warned off by a librarian. R: *gasps* We've gotta talk about the librarian. Okay, so we went out, it was Illinois. L: Yeah it was southern Illinois, it was a tiny town. R: A little further south than we probably would have been safe to be. Um- which is sort of funny, when you're coming from The South and you're escaping The South, you think anything north of here is good, but it turns out that may not be true. We end up in this small town because- and it's- it is far enough out that it was an hour to drive out there because somebody had an- it was like an- L: It was basically an auto repair R: Right L: shop R: It was a massive L: but it was huge. R: It was a massive- like they worked on eighteen wheelers there and we thought "Ooo, we could do like aerials and we could we could build a thing in here. L: All of the up's. R: had- it had ups and we got out there and we- honestly we'd been the car so long and I am- I'm an old person and I had to use the bathroom and we decided "library seems like a good place to go" and L: and we found the local library R: so we went to the local library. It's a one room library, it was darling and I walk around a little bit, stretch my legs, get my head together, and we're a little bit early and there's- I- I walk through the children's fiction and I noticed something. There's a certain author who hates the world- who- L: *Laughs* R: Who isn't on the shelf. And I go "This is interesting" and I notice a few other things like that and I go "This is interesting". So I- I start chatting up the librarian, and the librarian is very stand off-ish being very careful about what I say and what she says, and all of a sudden L: I came out of the bathroom because I went after you did R: and she takes one look at you L: and then a look at you R: one look at me, has a processing moment, puts her water bottle on the counter which is covered in rainbows and says "Now the thing you have to understand, is you can live here quiet but you may not want to live here loud" L: It- it was a moment. R: We decided because of that, and shout out to every librarian everywhere. Everywhere we went that we needed to stop somewhere other than a place to stay or a building that we were looking at, we tried to stop at a library and talk to libraries and librarians and get a real feel for what was going on in the town and we got so much additional information this way, just from- just from the that. L: Oh yeah R: That was so helpful, and probably kept us far safer in a few- in a few instances L: In a few instances, yes. R: And this was one of them, and so we got out of there. So a lot of things fell off the list whether it was L: The building wasn't right R: The building was was rotten, or- or wrong for the budget we had. Ah- the zoning fell through, we found a beautiful building in upstate New York. It was probably the answer L: and then it turned out that while to the letter of the code as I read it R: Oh you didn't L: the zoning was fine. I did read it. R: No, no. I'm saying you didn't do anything wrong. L: Yeah, by the letter of the code ah, as I read it, we totally could have used the building uh- by the practice R: We weren't allowed to be there L: by the people who run the zoning R: yeah L: It didn't meet the standards necessary for us to be able to both live and work there. R: and so it went away and was kind of a shame, because it was really cool place and L: but R: and in the middle of all this, one of- one important thing is that this building went under contract. So we were now looking for- L: before- before we went on this- on this big search R: so this was- this was a template in our hearts L: but we thought we cou- weren't going to be able to get it. R: No, and I have to admit something. I kept having dreams about this place the whole time and I kept saying "Well, you can't get too focused on a place because we gotta- we gotta stay flexible the goal- the goal is to get somewhere safe, find a place where we can do our thing, and do that." So I'm- every time I'm having one of these big visionary moments about this place I just- I say "It's not- it's- it's fine" and the place is gone, we're in- what I remember is we were in Vermont. We had just looked at a place, we looked at two places. One was so rotten I could see through the walls L: Oh yeah R: and the other one smelled so much of manure I couldn't breathe and I was back where we were staying and we were very, very sad. L: We were very sad because R: because we were running out of ideas, we were running out of options. L: We were calling back and forth between a couple of the ones that we were interested in, including that- that one in New York R: Right L: Um- and we're getting told that we're not going to be able to use it R: and so we- and something that hasn't been said, during all of this, we have a- we were in an apartment in Texas. We had a lease that was up and we had L: Or it was about to be up. R: It was about to be up. It was gonna be up by the end of this, you know, by not long after the end of this trip. We had no destination. There came- there came a couple of points where our whole plan was a single shot. We could logistically get to a place and set up shop and get going but we couldn't go get another lease, wait a while, do something else, do something else that was gonna- was going to destroy us. L: And I think we had two months? R: At this point L: I think R: at this point I think we were a couple, yeah, a couple L: yeah I think we had R: two or three months months out L: two-ish -ish months out. R: and in the midst of that when we were getting really low, we discovered that this place was available again, and when we called up, they- apparently the- the deal that was- that was pending for it had fallen apart L: It had fallen- it had fallen through R: for some unrelated reason of what they wanted to do and it's L: *Affirmative Noise* R: it's not, you know, it's not relevant but it was there for us which then when we had to come back here and we had to talk to this city about the zoning here. L: Which I had already read R: and it was good it was good. L: and it was potentially workable. Now one of these things is we were very flexible about how we were going to set up so, R: What they L: We could make us match them, which is very good. R: What they said was that they had heard from their neighborhood that a circus was coming to town and they didn't like the idea of having a tent in their backyard. That is a quote from a meeting with a planning commission L: No, that's not from the planning commission. The tent conversation happened before that. R: Oh L: We drove by the place as we came in the night before going to see the planning R: Oh you're right, you're right. L: and one of the neighbors popped by when they saw that we were here and said "Oh, are you the ones interested in buying the building? 'Cause I heard-" R: Yeah it's L: "that you were a circus" R: We're just far enough outside of everything, that it is a- it is a- a small- it is a small town, yet it is not a small- it is a small city. L: It is a small city, and this is a neighborhood. R: And this is definitely a neighborhood. It turns out, none of that matters, but it w- you know, it was a very funny conversation to realize that the perception of what we want to do, which we'll get to more in a moment, was so different than the perception. Like, if you tell people clowns or a circus are coming to town they get- they get frightened. They love the idea of them coming to town and leaving again but if you tell them they're coming up and staying? They're not happy L: They get concerned R: They get concerned. So we had to navigate that and we had to navigate the city and there was lots of back and forth and we got down to the wire where we had met with them, we had been on the phone with them, we had come up here L: and- and when we talked with them at one of the city meetings, they loved us. R: Oh L: When we explained what we actually were going to do R: They were L: they said "Yes!" R: They, in fact, were trying to ask us if we would be involved in city events before and we said "Could- could we, you know, actually close on a property and move here first, before we discuss possible bookings? That seems reasonable." Long story short, L: It all worked out R: with a new problem. We had exactly two months to pack everything we owned L: *laughs* R: and get it onto- you know, get it into a moving pod and get it here. This was, and I have to say a shout out to everybody who hung out with us in circus in place because we took out those- those three times a week L: chats R: video chats and we cut them in half and we said "Ok, we're going to do our circus skills for half the day and we're gonna pack for the other half the day and then and once we wrap up the call, we'll pack more" because otherwise we wouldn't get it done so what we ended up with is, we ended up with a small crew of people who were literally keeping us company while we packed down our lives. I owe my sanity to those people because it was a non-stop job and we literally packed everything around the gym down to the last couple of like, the last two weeks. L: yes R: or three weeks. We packed everything we could away from the spot on the wall where we did handstands so then we could pack boxes there in the last week and shi- we would shift things around and keep going and it got smaller and smaller and smaller and then finally was "Okay, we're done and all we're doing is this" and we barely finished in time, but we did and we got out and we handed our keys in on the day our lease was due and we said sayonara and we hit the road. L: Yup R: and we moved here. And I hate to say it's as simple as that but frankly it was as simple as that. L: It was, at that point, we got in a vehicle and we drove here R: So now, we're here and we've been here for about... it's just under four months. L: I think four months, yeah. R: and when we got here L: It'll be longer by the time you all hear it. R: Right, to let you know it's- it's- it's early January when we're recording. Um- So, yeah we did holidays in boxes. The first sixteen days we were here we didn't have running water upstairs, which meant we didn't have showers. This was rough. L: We did have running water. R: Yeah, we had bathrooms, downstairs, L: But not showers. R: No showers the- We were showering in the sink for- for I remember exactly, sixteen days. I will never lose the- it was like "How long has it been? Oh if I-" and I took two showers in a row just because I could when we finally could. So when we first got here this place, like I said was so full of stuff that I think the first couple of weeks- the first couple of weeks we were literally just moving and triaging "What does this room look like?" "What kind of problems do we have here?" "What kind-" So we didn't really get much done for the first two, three weeks we were here other than make a whole for our stuff to show up and discover things. L: Yes, because the- one of the things we- we- overlooked in our telling of the story were two words R: Oh yeah, L: Two words R: Could change your life. Significantly change your life. I'm not saying it'll ruin your life. I'm not saying it'll make it good. I said it will change your life, and the words are L: As Is. R: As is. Look, when someone tells you you're getting a building "as is" that means you're going to find old beautiful furniture in it, and you're going to find rotten plumbing. L: Yup R: You're gonna find, you know, gorgeous things and you're going to find horrors. And it was exactly like that, at the end someone clearly had packed things away and sold us the building. Nothing is wrong with the bones of this beautiful place but we have, so much work that were doing is just rolling back, honestly neglect from the- nothing- nothing against who was living here, but they had clearly hit their limit and they were done. L: Yes R: And so we're rolling back that, plus whatever they did to try to flip this into saleable form. Which I wish they hadn't done in some cases because I have found things that I'm trying to fix but we've been- we've been slowly working at corners, working at piles and slowly starting see it and I think the first thing I did was, I mean, I went through storage closets and pulled- they were stacked crammed floor-to-ceiling, a walk in storage closet crammed floor-to-ceiling with just stuff. I know, at this point I've taken dozens of carloads of things to be donated. We still have to get a dumpster out here. There's just- there's been so much of that and the same time we're re-sheet-rocking some walls. We're doing plumbing repair. You're doing electrical work. L: I- I am learning to be a handyman. Which is something I never expected to do. I think in a lot of ways I always wanted to do. R: I'm glad because I hate it. *laughs* You can do it. L: And, and- and to be perfectly honest, when we were discussing this location, um- one of the things that we have here is there is a lawn, and not only is there a lawn, there is also a lot. R: A parking lot. L: Um- and that parking lot is not a fully paved parking lot so, it's a lot and one of the things that I promised when we were talking about it was that I was willing to do the grounds keeping. R: Which is good because I'm not. *laughs* L: and it's been- that's actually been really, really enjoyable for me. I hadn't realized how much I enjoyed growing up doing those kinds of things because I did have a lawn that I tended to be responsible for and I've gotten to do that kind of thing here and it's really exciting, in part 'cause, while we all discuss what things are going to be done I get to make decisions. R: Everyone- everyone has a different- different domain here. I've- L: Yeah R: I've noticed that. You know, Marie is- is like, you know, office logistics and the kitchen, the way she wants it set up. I'm really in charge of the theater and how this place is gonna be, when- when it gets to its destination, again, we'll get there. Um, and then you're- you're in charge of grounds and- and facilities. L: Yeah R: So we're all- we're all working on different pieces. So, I know I say I'm not gonna do it, but that's because I'm doing a lot of other stuff. I think the thing to talk about is what it's gonna become, and the best way we described it when- this is how we described it in our- in our pitch, so I think it's the best- best example of it is, it as a clown school and artist residency program, and L: yes R: what that means is- is that you can come here and take classes. You can come here and rehearse a show. You can come here and workshop and commune with other clowns. If you're not a clown, and many people are not yet, and I understand and I respect that. You, um, you can come here and work on creative projects. L: Yes R: We have a- we have a place you can stay, we can feed you while you dive into that creative project and work on it. We have studio space. We have artistic space. The- primarily focused on theater, but we're very open to possibilities of- of what can come here, because the space right now, it's- it's still- it's still in- in its reemergence and I- I imagine, I would love to see murals on the walls and I would love to see art everywhere and I'd love to see it become very vibrant. Obviously right now it feels absurd because I'm surrounded by construction. L: Yes R: But the- the long term vision of the place is to- is to be a place that becomes- and part of why it works so well being near a big city but not in it, is that you're just outside it. One of the things that I remember when I studied clown at the Celebration Barn Theater, when I studied with De Castro. In a couple of these programs where they were deep dive intensives, is you were just outside of it all. The ones where I've gone and like, done a couple of days in a city, are fun vacations but when you're doing this process where you're- you're digging yourself creatively. L: It's nice for that to be somewhere a little bit outside of things. R: Yeah, I think- I think, to me the word that we- we jokingly throw around but I think it's really accurate as it's like a monastery for clowns. It's going to be like a sanatorium where you go to get well. You come here and you play and you- L: Well that word's got a lot of baggage. R: It does have a lot of baggage but I mean it in the nice place with nice grass and the sunlight comes in, you have coffee on the porch and you sit and you calm and maybe you paint. I don't mean anything more intense than that. L: I'm just checking in. R: Well I'm being clear. L: Thank you R: You're welcome. Where were we? *pause* Oh, the madhouse for clowns, I remember. Yeah, so you come here and you know, you- you remember how to play because we're so caught up in work, we're so caught up in doing, and right now I think one of my- my big, you know, pressures is I'm trying to get all this work that we have to do done. So we can get to the good part, which is the play, and also to remember that it's coming. Which is why I'm so glad that we decided to finally record because at least now we're talking about it again. L: Yeah, it took a minute, this is definitely- as I'm sure if you're listening to this, you probably noticed. This is coming out significantly later then our previous R: yeah L: two seasons have because frankly, we were in the middle of a move at about the point in the year that we used to start recording for this R: and then once we were here, it was a- was- we didn't have the facilities to do anything and we were under a lot of stress and I think we're still decompressing from that stress now L: Oh yeah R: I think right now I'm really excited to reconnect with the people who listen to us, who ask us questions, who- who- who interact with us and I was so excited, for example, I just recently added this idea where last season we did people remixing our theme song. I said "What if we got visual creative people involved and made them make-" L: "Made them make" R: Well, not "made them" L: Sat them down and said "You Must!" R: "You will create! Yes!", "Encouraged them to make" How's that? I like that, that's better. L: That- that's better. R: I actually, I straight up dared a few of them. I said "I bet you could" make cover art for each of these episodes so we could feature them. L: Yes R: and so you'll notice that the- the logo of our show this episode is a little different and hopefully for as many as that we- that we can the season ah, we will be L: Featuring different artists R: featuring that, and if you check our show notes, you'll see information about that artist and links to here their stuff is. So you can go check them out because I- I think my favorite part of this process has been and continues to be, both the podcast and the greater missions, is the idea that we make something that people play with. You- We make a- a podcast. Someone makes us music. People remix the music. They make art based on that. We get inspired to do more things and we keep that, sort of, process going and it's all shared. It's all under creative commons licenses so everything we're doing gets an opportunity to be someone else's toy. L: Yeah R: and I think that's so important because right now it's so easy to be caught up in the- the sort of the work of art. This idea instead of the play of art, the work of art, and I really like the we're- we're really focusing with this project, from it's inception has been "This is just play" L: Yeah R: There's no metrics, monetization there's no big words like "advertising" we have no idea how many people are listening. We know how many people have talked to us, which is a lot, and thank you. L: And we know how many questions we've received. R: And we know- we know all the questions we've received, which are a fair number and we're excited and we always need more. Please send them. L: Please do R: That said, I'm so excited to be focusing, finally, after all the pressure, and it's not like it's done there's still so much work to do, but to be focusing for just a moment on the play of it. The- the- the higher level ideas, the- the good stuff, to me the good stuff is always like "What are we doing?" and "Why are we doing it?". Yeah, busting our butts is- is necessary but why are we busting our butts? We're making a place where people to feel safe. One of the things that I've always remembered is that the creative process is inherently traumatic and the idea that we can make a place that is a nurture space, a safe space for some of that exploration. To make it to be encouraging. To make it, you know, something that is accessible to more people to play with is just exciting to me. L: Yeah, that's a huge and I'm so excited about it because I mean, we- and we expressed a lot of this at the tail end of last season in talking about what we'd like to see in the world and to see how many steps that we've taken thus far and have a vision of what we're going to do in the future is really exciting. R: Oh absolutely. L: I don't think I have more to say on it except for that it's really exciting. I'm so excited about it. R: Most of the time throughout, you know, and I've- I've said this previously, most of the time throughout our career and my career I've been a guest star and I think the one thing that's a little scary is, you know, this is our- this is our building. L: Yes R: It's not our house but it is a home and we're inviting people to it and we're doing this, which means the guest star always has the advantage that if they screw up they can leave. They *laughs* they just go home. We're- This is- this is our mistake. We're making it together and we're going to be staying here after it's made. L: Yes we are R: and that to me- L: and we will make repeated mistakes until we have something that works. R: We have made mistakes on the past. We will make mistakes currently, as evidenced by this podcast, and future generations will come here and learn from our mistakes and make mistakes with us, we hope. That's the dream. L: That is the dream. R: I like the dream because it's daft. If you had told me you were gonna wish- wish upon a podcast, L: *laughs* R: and then suddenly you were gonna see the place that would make it work, and you have to understand, it's not just that I think that. I have friends of mine who said "I had a weird dream about being on stage in kind of a dark room and the walls were a funny color and I- you were there" and I said "Let me- let me send you some pictures" and they go "Oh wow. You- you got the place." That happened. L: How did that happen? R: That happened more than once. There's something going on here and it feels spooky and uncomfortable to say that because it is now time for me to enter the phase of my life where I am the weirdo who has to believe in that stuff unshakingly L: Yes. R: and I know when I first got here I was in a constant state of freaking out, and that's because the reality of the honeymoon had landed and I was you know, elbow deep in a massive construction project L: Yes R: With no experience. I've done- I've made things work throughout my life but I've not- L: There is a big difference between the making things work of visiting spaces or being temporarily allowed to use spaces R: *Affirmative Noise* L: and making decisions that you know are going to impact your life five years from now. R: Sure L: ten years from now, because the decis- because if you do the short cut way to piece it together today R: Future you's gonna fix it L: Future you is going to have to fix it. R: Absolutely, and we've been trying to make life good for future you in the decisions we're making. But I'll tell you, so I'm freaking out because I'm overwhelmed by this but I remember the moment I took the deep breath and I got recommitted to this space. I mean I was already committed to it, but I mean when I got that when I- I guess I got centered L: *Affirmative Noise* R: on it and got focused again. We had done enough of the bare bones minimum for survival, you know, we had scrubbed enough things that we were eating. We had gotten the water fixed up. So, you know, we're a little ways in, the pressure was on and I remember, there were- this at one point was a foster home, it was a- a bunch of other things. It's been a bar. It's been a theater.It's been a dance hall. It's- It's been a boarding house. It's been all these things throughout history. It's been people's homes. But the last place it was was in fact a foster home and had children here. L: Yes R: and so I've been finding things, like, you'll be wandering around and you'll find children's toys just sort of in the corners and they're dirty and you clean them up as best you can and if they're in good enough shape to clean up you give them to charity and if they're not good enough you make art out of them. That's the plan and that's why I made a massive pile and I found these magnetic letters, and I sat- and in the middle you're- you're like, going through doing electrical work and gardening work and Marie's doing all this scrubbing and I'm taking a toothbrush to some magnetic letters. I had lost my mind, friends. I was sitting there, it was a mental health moment and I'm taking a toothbrush over the sink that you had changed out L: *soft chuckle* R: and I was scrubbing the letters till they were clean. I just kept doing it and I said "You know, maybe I'll put them up somewhere. Maybe I'll do something with them. Someday I'll do some- this will be funny.", but for some reason I had to clean these letters. They're just mag- blue magnetic letters. Okay and ah- I finally got them done, and this took an entire day. *laughs* You know, this was like I did nothing else of value that day and I did this and I realized I was meditating in the background. I was- this was a moving meditation and the end of it I knew exactly what I needed to do. There is, just outside the theater, I'm going to begin to paint the picture, just outside the- if you go to the back door of the theater and you go through it, you go through a little pass through hallway you'll spot a pantry and if you to go right you end up in a place we call La Toilette. It is a pink bathroom and it is currently the bathroom I use every day. So, La Toilette is over there and it has stalls and so I took the magnetic letters and I put them on the stall and I spelled out one of the first precepts of my clown teaching which I translated years ago into toki pona to help me get my head around it and to keep it easy to use and it was "mi lon la mi pona". Which essentially means " If I'm here, I'm good." "If I'm present, I'm improving". All of those ideas wrapped up into one little phrase. "mi lon la mi pona" "If I'm here, I'm good". For all the pressures I was feeling that I had to get it done. For all the worries that I had to move a mountain "If I'm here, I'm good." and in that moment I'd finally shown up and again I, for the third- fifth- or one hundredth time I cried a little and the next day I got working really hard and it was good for me. It was a moment where I think I did- I had to put some art on the wall, because there's- there's stuff everywhere and we're not decorating because some walls are getting repainted and we're not putting our personal possessions up because rooms haven't been redone and I just- I did the silly little thing and it wasn't like "I must claim the place" it was nothing like that. It was just, I wanted to put it up where I could see it and I knew, well, it's the bathroom I use everyday and I'm very likely to see things there L: Yes R: 'cause I'm going to spend some time there. So the first thing I teach people are exercises relating to this idea about being present and about showing up. and I taught it to myself and I put a piece of art there. So that's sort of where I "got in the room" as we say. And now I'm working on the rooms. Not long after that we redid a pantry which now means we're- which sounds like "Why would you go and do that?" But everything has to be done, which is a constant struggle, but the pantry is between the kitchen and la Toilette and the walls were rotten in there all this wooden counter-top stuff was just water damaged. I ripped it all out and then Marie and I took a week and we rebuilt it and now it's a place where all of the stuff that we use when people come to stay with us and to visit us, that's where it lives. It's stored clean and airtight and ready to go on- on racks but that's where that stuff lives. So, like, my first big project was to make this place better for guests in some small way. That wasn't just throwing away garbage L: Yes R: or scrubbing something. L: Yup R: and I was like "Yes, that's how this should be". Will I make myself a nice corner somewhere? Of course. I dragged a couch and middle the room and made a living room. You know, it's like "Yeah, I've already done that" but I needed to do something to make the building good for people and so that's- that's the energy I'm trying to really hold onto right now while we're doing all these different things and everything is equal priority and all has to happen right now and therefore it's moving very slowly. L: Yeah R: Unless you look at it every couple of months and then you go "Wow, look at the list of everything we've done" and then it- you say "Okay, it's good." Big projects are hard because your- you- you get so deep in them that you forget "Why am I- Why am I patching a hole in the floor? Oh so I can finish a room? Why am I finishing a room? Oh So I can be done with it. Why do I care about that? Oh, so it can be this place" L: "So that we can do this next thing and so that it all goes someplace." R: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, but also so it can be the place L: Yes R: Where the- where the spoons go. L: Yes, where the spoons go. R: Where quite literally where I have a box of extra spoons in case anyone needs one. If need a spoon let me know. And that's ah- that's been the process and not been watching you be amazing L: Thank you R: and handle everything I can't L: Oh, I'm not handling everything but R: Everything I can't. There's somethings that are not getting handled. That's a separate topic. L: *laughs* R: but the- the nice thing is, we've got the chance to work on it and we leapt ahead and we've gotten out of the clean- clean our way back to the wall so we can fix the wall. Now we're at the fixing the wall place L: We are R: and then we will be moving forward again. Um- I think a lot of the- a lot of the place is like that right now but there are things about it that I've never experienced before. Um- One it's- it's really big. L: It is R: And it's not really big in someone else's building. I've trained in circus facilities and places like that that had lots of room to run free but this is I run free and it's- it's I'm not in someone else's house. I am- I can run freely here and that feels good. That, you know, it's quiet here at night. That it's safe. It feels safe. L: Yeah R: Feels really good. That the building is quirky and has character and I think after years of living in places where the, you know, where the place was, whether it was an apartment or a theater it was very kept clean and kept tidy, this place is an old building it has character it has flaws and that's what makes it beautiful L: *Affirmative Noise* R: And getting- and getting to reconnect with that has been really good for me. It's also been a lot of, like, recalibration but it's been good. L: Yeah, I- I mean you- you had a very deep moment of- of connection and when- when you felt like you- you centered in and Uh- I got into a "I can be up higher than you" match with a cat so. R: What? L: The moment that I really felt like I was settling in and like I knew what I was doing and I was going to be able to do this. There's ah- there's a back building that R: storage L: Mostly is just storage at this point but does exist and that- and does have ah- gutters that need to be cleaned and so I was up a ladder, I got up on the roof of this back building 'cause it's short and was cleaning the gutters and there are many neighborhood cats and one of them decided to jump into a tree next to this back building and just, like, stared at me going "See? I can do it too. You're not special" and it was just like "I am here and I'm doing something I know how to do. That I've done a lot. I am interacting with the place, because pets, particularly outdoor pets, because this was an outdoor pet, they're part of the place. They're not just people there, they are that too, but they're part of the place and it was like "Yeah, I am just existing here and it's good" R: I think it's been, after several years especially of being more or less locked into an apartment, creatively, physically everything else, it's just- it's really good to just get a chance to expand a little L: *Affirmative Noise* R: And you know, one of the things I remember was I've been- I've been making theater masks, I mean I'm not doing any arts and crafts right now. I can't wait to sling some paint that is creative as opposed to constructive but, we're making theater masks which are right there in a box, Um- When I was making these theater masks I kept saying "I want to- I want to eventually do bigger and of course your limitation is your kitchen table L: Yes R: and now I look around and it's like "I could build a giant" L: Well for one that table is now set up and ready to be used exclusively R: Oh fine, yeah L: For projects and it's not being used as the kitchen table anymore R: Yeah, you only get half the table. Now you get the whole table, but more importantly we get the whole room. L: Yes R: Just the idea of like, okay we can- when we get some things cleared up, the idea that we're gonna be able to work creatively at a scale the we've never gonna work at L: Oh it's exciting. R: That's very exciting and I can't- I can't wait to start sharing that and showing that. It's- It's- I think the frustration is it feels like a lot of talk because you know, right now we're cleaning gutters and we're- we're scrubbing bathrooms and floors and patching holes. That has to be done to make this place ready and I remember a piece of advice I gave earlier that I learned which was "Figure out what you need and give it to yourself" I feel like I'm playing that game for a building now, which is "Figure out with the building needs and give it to the building so the building can be ready to host" L: All of the play. R: All of the play and that's what we want to give to you who's listening, is the opportunity that there will come a turning point when instead of this being, you know, "This Old Clown House" the construction project, it'll be come and- come and hear about this place and come and visit and come and be a part of it because I think the part I'm most interested in is really working collaboratively with people. I don't need my ego- I don't need that- the- you know, it's nice to get a standing ovation. It's nice to get that- that feeling but what I really you want to do is help create things and help enable people to create things. That's the thing that really, really excites me. L: Yeah R: and coming- coming to grips with that's really interesting. Um, but that's been a thing I've been thinking about a lot is that I said those words a year ago. We manifested them almost instantly by com- When you think about like, your whole life building up to a thing, that feels instantaneous. It was "Every day and never ending, this is never going to get done. How we can possibly make this work, and I still don't know" sort of feeling. Which we only got through because when it was "Find a building" it was do nothing but find the building. When it was "Get the building we want" it was do nothing but get the building we want. Then it was "Pack all of our stuff", do nothing but pack all of our stuff. And right now it's "Fix the building up, so we can do the thing". You can't think any bigger than that. So, at this point it felt forever but if you- if you step back and look at it, it was "I said something silly. We randomly had an opportunity to see this building and a year later we're sitting in it" L: Yes R: Just like that. I still- if the reason why I think the beginning of this conversation was so scattered is because it doesn't make any sense. We went looking at other buildings because we felt like grown-ups are supposed to do that. L: True R: but the truth of the matter was we found it, and we were done and then it went away and we were mad and then it became back because we- we figured out that we- we meant it I guess. I don't- I don't know what happened. What I know is that we're here and that's what I keep coming back to. L: And "mi lon la mi pona" is not exclusively in the singular. R: No absolutely not. "We're here so we're good" L: *Affirmative Noise* R: You're listening to us, so you're here with us, so you're good. Absolutely. It means "If I'm-" and it also means things like "mi lon la" is in the context of me being present. Me being here. Me being truthful. I am good, fixed, repaired, healing. All of those things. So, something new is starting. I think that's what's so exciting a new- a tran- a transformation happened. So many of them. L: Yes R: But now, instead of it being- Sure, I'm not going to pretend there's not a lot of terrible things on fire in the world right now but I also feel like there is a lot of transformational energy in the positive of making a good place. Not just for myself. Not just battening down the hatches L: *Affirmative Noise* R: I think that has great merit and I'm very excited about that and it's been- it's been very long time since I felt like- I feel like, you know, at the start of the pandemic we lost our mission. Then our mission was very clear. It was "Keep people company." L: Yes R: as best we could and then it was "We gotta get outta here" and then it was "We can't just run. We have to- we have to go somewhere and put our heel on the ground" and we did. L: Yeah we found somewhere we wanted to go to. R: I know L: Which was a big deal. R: It was a big deal and I fear that, like, you know, like anyone who's obsessed with one thing, I fear that where my interestingness starts to fade away is because, I mean, I'm talking about patching drywall. I'm not talking about the fact that I found a statue of a ballerina and going to repaint her into a clown, because I can't do that right now, even though that sounds very creative because I've got this other stuff to do. L: I mean you've said that R: and- and I L: and- and you're not wrong. I think it is important that we don't- R: put it all on hold L: put it all on hold R: Yeah and that's what I think- I think, sitting here, getting to talk about it, what I realize is that I've been putting- I've been putting a few of those things on hold, some of them I haven't. Some of them- we've gone back to training and we've gotten back to juggling and we've gotten back to playing a bit more but yeah, creatively I feel like, yeah, maybe I need to carve a little more time and I decided the first one was gonna be getting back to this because we had so very much fun making these episodes of this podcast, as silly as it sounds because it's just talking and yet somehow of course it isn't because it becomes a conversation. It becomes a performance, and so I'm very grateful to have that opportunity and I feel like the stuff that's coming is so exciting and I've been sharing little snippets of it and- and so- unfortunately when you're sharing little pieces, little flashes like "Ooo, I saw this" or "Ooo, we did this" "Ooo, we did this". We share that. You don't get a sense of scope. One of the things I know, when we've talked to people about this project, people go "Well yes, moving to a new house is very hard" and then you have to stop and go "No, no, you don't understand. We're sitting in something the size of a hotel. L: A small hotel R: Yeah L: but a hotel R: and so it's- the mag- the magnitude of the of the project is is enormous. The idea that, like, I cleaned out a closet full of towels. That took me more than a week because of the scale. L: Yes R: That's the silliness were working at. I don't want to talk about some of the horrifying things that we found in there because people will be sad but, yeah, there's a lot of mouse poo. L: *laughs* R: It's just a L: yeah R: mouse poo, but at the same time, once- once you get your head around the sense of scale we're talking about and then you go back to those pictures, you go "Wow, despite all this chaos we are capable of seeing, in any direction we look, a beautiful thing." L: Yes R: and I feel like that's- that's the gift of this place is that you can make little dramatically lit vignettes in the corner. That's- that's the beautiful- the beautiful thing about having space. We can- we can have that moment and I hope to be able to give that to more people and I hope when we share it people can see it at the scale it's at. It doesn't- I fear it sounds like bragging, because it's the opposite. It's- I'm terrified and I'm- I'm confused and it's a mess L: and we need people to understand, when we say "It's gonna be a bit" R: It's gonna be a bit. L: It's gonna be a bit. R: but we're going to be talking to you about it. So, currently the plan is we are doing the season. We are collecting questions. We already have some. We definitely need some more. L: Yep. R: I'm- I think our release schedule, probably by necessity, will be little slower. L: That seems likely R: We're going to figure that out, but we wanted to get in here and do the initial recording and we promise you we're not gonna just ramble and babel. We're gonna ramble and babel about stuff L: Because you've asked us questions. R: As opposed to this episode which was the- the- re- L: "So what's happened?" Which is a very open ended question. R: It is and I- I feel like, I'm not- did we answer it? L: I think we gave the overarching answer, yes. R: You think we did. Okay. L: I am confident there are stories that were missed. I am confident that there's much more we will end up talking about. R: I think so, I- you know, if you have a question about the move, the buildings the- this building, the other ones, any of this stuff, ask us. We'll tell you about it. We're trying to figure it all out and it's just so much happened in a year. You say, 'cause some years are like "What'd you do?" "Well, I kept going and I did the job." L: Yeah R: Some- some- the last few years have been really big for us. You've been through a lot. I've been through a lot. We've all been through a lot. L: Yep R: and one of the things that I think about is that every week I think the same thing I think "We made it through another week" L: We did. R: We made it through another week. L: Kombucha for everyone. R: Kombucha all around. We made it through another week. Huzzah. And I feel like when you say "We made it through another year" That's a lot. L: It is R: and so if you're listening to this, you made it through one too. L: And we're glad you did R: Yeah. So hang in there, we've got more coming and I suspect we're going to try recording from different places because we don't yet have a closet-y area. So for a little while we're going to be filthy liars because we are not in fact L: "Two Clowns in a Closet" R: but we will be again, and we'll be talking to again real soon. Take care. L: Bye! R: This is usually where we open the- how are we gonna- L: There's not a door! R: We don't have a door! L: Well how do we trigger the theme song without a door? R: I don't even know- I didn't think about that. I was all schmaltzy and "We're gonna get out" and "It's gonna be nice" and now we're- we're stuck. Again. L: Again, we're stuck. R: Again we're stuck. Okay, okay. We can fix this. Um, we'll make a door sound. Make a sound like a door! L: Uh- *claps* R: That wasn't it. L: No R: No, hang on. *Makes a creaky door-like sound* oh that's too creepy. Don't do that. L: Yeah was a really creepy- I didn't do that. You did that. R: I was just saying we shou- don't do that. Ok we need a door noise L: A door *silence* R: that- that didn't do it L: No R: That didn't do it, we need a *snap sound* L: They aren't all gonna be winners Both: *laugh*